how to make a golf scramble fairhow to make a golf scramble fair

Prior to WHS you had to make an adjustment to the calculated Course Handicap (see next section below). We have already given you some of our best possible tricks for a scramble round. Early in advance. There, three options for one question! After each player tees off, the team chooses one shot to use, and each team member plays from that spot. } HOLE 4: Must use the ball farthest from the hole when the team reaches the green and on every set of putts thereafter. A golf scramble can be a fun and exciting way to spend time with friends while getting some exercise. two players, the USGA recommends adjusting the Course Handicap of the players playing from the tees with higher Course Ratings. Its usually expected for most players to have a decent short game, but having a player who can chip it close and allow for up and down par saves on par-4s and birdie looks on par-5s is a valuable kind of player too. And no, we're not talking about eggs. Now that weve gone over some general rules governing scrambles lets take a look at three popular formats for this game type. Select contests and events Determine other activities Research registration sites Determine data to be collected Establish preliminary budget Develop sponsor package and Identify target sponsors 9 Months Prior Begin selling sponsorships Develop event marketing plan Finalize event logo/branding Design printed materials to which sponsors can be added Rules of Play for a 2-Man Scramble There are some basic rules that all players must follow during a 2-man scramble: After teeing off, players must choose which ball they want to play and then both teammates must play their next shots from that spot, Once selected, the chosen ball cannot be switched out unless it goes out-of-bounds or into a water hazard, On each shot, both teammates should agree on which player will hit first, Players are not allowed to move obstacles (e.g., leaves, branches) in their path. So next time youre looking for something new and exciting to do on the golf course, give Scramble Golf with Handicap a try you wont be disappointed! To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. If thats impossible, put the highest and lowest handicaps together. In order to make competition from tees with different Course Ratings fair, an adjustment to players' Course Handicap must be made. There are also some restrictions on what kinds of shots can be made: Shots MUST be alternate shots meaning that one player hits odd-numbered holes while the other hits even-numbered ones (or vice versa). Many players that enjoy a scramble are new golfers. The team then chooses the best drive and all players play their second shots from that location. Plus, scrambles usually have separate competitions like: Plus, there is usually food served afterward to present awards, announce winners, and possibly do a raffle as well. The face and depth of the bunker have an influence on sand loss due to wind, but logically, smaller bunkers will suffer less sand loss than larger bunkers. The team with the lowest score after nine or 18 holes wins the tournament. Well, then you need to try Scramble Golf with Handicap! Each player plays their own ball throughout the game. You will him out on the courses of Sarasota. The teams score is equal to the lowest-scoring player on the team for each hole. If you find yourself in trouble off the tee, dont be afraid to lay up getting yourself back into position is more important than trying to make an amazing recovery shot that may not even come off. One of the first steps in hosting a successful scramble is getting the word out. In this blog post, well cover the basics of how to play a golf scramble, what formats are available, and offer some tips on how to come out victorious. 1 in the national NAIA rankings, Luke moved to New York in 2012 to pursue his Masters degree in Journalism from Columbia University. The remaining two players must then finish the hole. For example, if you're using four-player teams, divide the players into four groups based on their handicaps, with the top 25 percent of players in group one, the next-best 25 percent in group two, etc. When selecting your shots, it is important to consider what will give you and your team the best chance of making it close to or in the hole. Some scrambles will have both gross and net scoring. With the scramble format, you will pick one good shot each time. (ii) There are no mulligans or gimmes allowed in scrambles! Teams usually leave a mark close to where the ball stopped to assist with spotting the ball. Tom's would lower to 14 and Dave's would lower to 15. Today well be taking a deep dive into the scramble format. Its obviously nice to have players on your team who are the complete package and can drive, chip and putt, but more often than not one will specialize in a certain category. In this This continues for all 18 holes. The team with the lowest score wins the tournament. The most important and basic rule of the golf scramble is that each time a player hits the ball, they hit from the best possible spot. To win at golf scramble, it is important to have a solid strategy for teeing off and choosing the best drive. Here are the basic rules: Each team consists of 4 players. Each hole you play, keep this order. Players swinging with full confidence, can get golfers much closer to the hole and make the next shot easier. A 4-man scramble is a fun and popular format for golfers of all skill levels. This format can get very competitive, and the chance of recovering from a bogey is tough. First, all four players on a team must tee off on each hole. It also makes things much more interesting as well. Posted August 12, 2015. See below for a more complete explanation. Now, heres where things get interesting instead of simply taking the total score for each team as-is, a handicap is factored in. } } If you are in the middle of the event, dont be afraid to ask the tournament administrator how to play the event. Teaching and player improvement is my passion. The one advantage is that you get to watch the players in front of you to see how the putt breaks and evaluate the speed. When playing great golf, you will likely shoot lower than your handicap. two players, the USGA recommends adjusting the Course Handicap of the player playing from the tees with a higher Course Rating. The best shot is again selected, and this continues until the ball is holed. The organization focuses on match and stroke play rules. From there, the team decides which shot is best, and everyone plays their second shot from that location. For shots on the green, each player must play within a putters head of where the ball came to rest. Always play the ball allowing for the best chance of success on the next shot. In addition, if any of these players are new players, expect the tournament to last for a very long time.New golfers are still not sure how to keep up the best pace of play. Instead, pair the high handicaps together. Josh Sens (2.5 handicap): Toss up balls. All team members are allowed to use only irons/wedges for the play of this hole. Registered with the Information Commissioner's Office, registration number ZB363767, Lawrence Smelser has been part of the Golfible writing staff since 2019 and is a freelance golf journalist. Opening remarks will begin at 9:45 a.m. with a presentation of the colors. Four-player teams usually play the round without another team beside them. A scramble allows teams to compete against each other and spice things up, rather than just participating in traditional stroke play with every player competing for themselves. How to play in a Golf Scramble When you're starting off in a scramble group, each team member will hit their tee shot. Flicking a tee? To set up a team handicap[1] take 20 percent of the worst players course handicap, 15 percent of the second worst players, 10 percent of the second best players, and 5 percent of the best players handicaps and add them together. They each play their second shot within one club-length of the chosen first shot. Similar to the shotgun format, the scramble format is popular when hosting charity and fundraising events because it helps to relax the rules and the participants along with it. Its time to get some strategy to help ensure that you can win your next golf scramble. Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on LinkedIn (Opens in new window), Click to email a link to a friend (Opens in new window), The magic hole-in-one moment that made two women BFFs, Hey USGA, women golfers dream of more distance, not less, Antigua designer gives Solheim Cups Team USA a fresh look, Ladies, we need this now: Women on Course is back. The rules are simple: Each player in the four-person scramble hits a drive. You could make it a Stars and Stripes format for July 4 and require that the losers sing a patriotic song, or a Holiday format for December and make the song a carol or other festive number. Its always good to know that your green fees are going toward something or someone in need. Hopefully, you now have the information you need to ensure your next golf scramble is a great experience. 4.50 + 2.45 Postage. If moving the ball would cause damage to the course (such as if it lies on top of someones foot), then it may be moved one club length in any direction so long as that placement does not improve its position relative to the chosen drive. 88 playing from the Blue tees. This process continues until the ball is holed. Assigning handicaps can be done using any number of methods (e.g., USGA index, average score over 18 holes, etc. For example, if a three-player team includes golfers with handicaps of 8, 10 and 12, respectively, divide the total of 30 by 6. If you need a refresher, see our expert advice on scrambles. A golf scramble is a tournament format in which players are assigned to teams of four, with each team taking turns hitting the same golf ball. Well explain how to play a golf scramble in this article. Once team has reached the green, the putt is good. The most accurate player should also hit first from the fairway. While scrambles frequently occur in tournaments, nothing prevents you from organizing an informal round. Casey hails from Florida & is our resident product tester and head of reviews here at GolfMonster. The golf scramble tournament is a game of strategy and luck. If you prefer a three or four-man scramble, you will need multiple tee times. The question often asked is how does a golf scramble work?. Chances are, most of the putts that you have to take during a scramble are going to be within the ten foot range. You should have chances for birdies and eagles if you manage the golf course correctly. With each golfer having to contribute a certain number of drives, it becomes much more of a fair team format. Lastly, have fun! Also, try to focus on your own game and dont get too caught up in what other teams are doing this can lead to frustration and ultimately affect your performance. With a scramble, all shots are played from the location of the best ball. A scramble allows teammates to play the course in a best ball format. Try to hole out everything on or around the green for the best chance to win. Type above and press Enter to search. If you can find a tournament that does 6-6-6 (6 holes of three separate formats), those are the most fun! Golf Scramble: Rules, Set Up & How To Play, The 7 Longest Drivers on the PGA Tour Right Now, Average Golf Club Distance: How Far Should You Hit Each Club, Golf Terms Explained: [The Definitive Beginners Guide], What Is The Average Golf Score? Even if you won the tournament, you couldve won by more and if you were to lose by a stroke or two those mulligans could have changed the outcome and will surely make you feel full of regret. But if youre not so sure or if theres a lot of pressure on you, it might be better to let someone else take the lead. Copyright 2023. 3b. Scramble Rules Now that weve answered the question what is a golf scramble, its time to dive into the specifics of how this game is played. 12201 River Village Way, Ft. Myers, FL 33905 | Phone: 239.694.7229 2022 The Verandah Club | Contact Us | Site Map, 12201 River Village Way, Ft. Myers, FL 33905. HOLE 15: Players must have another shot of tequila at the tee. Yes communication is key! lowering the handicaps of players playing from tees with lower Course Ratings. When you play in a golf scramble, the key is to ensure you always have a straight shot or a safe shot. At the end of the hole, golfers will then be able to choose the best score for the hole and count this as the team score. Scrambles usually have teams of two to four players, although one-player scrambles do occur. If the accurate player hits a good shot from the fairway, the others can take chances. So, who should put first in a scramble? Course Handicaps downward by 3 strokes. With WHS the adjustment is included in the Course Handicap calculation. The team with the lowest score on the hole wins that hole, and the first team to win a predetermined number of holes wins the match. After you find the putt that is closest or easiest, you mark the ball and each player will putt. HOLE 11: Alternate shot. "acceptedAnswer": { Sure, therell be more strokes to contend with, but for good reason: No player will be able to skirt under the radar. handicaps for players playing from lower Course Ratings. When team has reached the green/circle, use your gift ribbon to shorten the putt. The team can elect to use any combination of drives per hole, but only 1 drive per person may be used on each hole. Factors such as lie in the fairway or break on the green may dictate that the team plays a different ball. Mulligans let a player take an additional shot from the same spot if the team decides that, given the less than optimal results of all of their shots, another swing provides a strong chance at a lower score on the hole. The general rules of a scramble are the same as mentioned in the previous section. The group of golfers will then decide which of the tee shots ended up in the best spot, then they'll each play their second shot within one club length of the chosen first shot. This is a tough format and is typically played at private clubs when golfers partner with a friend. All rights reserved. We aim to keep the competition fair and enjoyable for everyone, no matter their skill level. Here are the before and after Course Handicap calculations: After 1/1/2020 (World Handicap System) -. "@type": "Answer", HOLE 13: If any shot goes in the lateral hazard on the left, no matter if it was the 2nd or 3rd or 4th or 5th, the team MUST use that ball. Pay attention to what other people are doing too if they seem like they are struggling with their game then offer some help or encouragement. The Texas scramble is very much like the standard scramble format. ), but make sure everyone agrees on methodology ahead of time so there arent any surprises later on down the road. This process is continued until the ball is holed. This helps the round of golf to move faster and for golfers to have an easier time getting around the golf course. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Nick Faldo's Golf A Game for the Commodore Amiga Computer at the best online prices at eBay! Everyone must play by the same rules and regulations throughout the entire game. A scramble is a type of golf tournament in which each team member tees off, and then the best shot is selected and all players play their second shots from that location. The order helps the middle two players have an excellent chance at doing something that will impress the team. Remember that the shot closest to the hole may not represent the best play. Arnold Palmer's Bay Hill Club and Lodge, Orlando, FL. While it isnt required, most teams like to assign handicaps prior to starting their round so that everyone has an equal chance at winning prizes or money pot. This 4-team format brings Vegas to the golf course. "@type": "Answer", A golf scramble can be fun to liven up your game and add friendly competition among friends or co-workers. ", Hitting fairways and greens is always going to be your best bet aim for these as much as possible. A four-player scramble allows four players on each team. A great way to level the playing field in a scramble tournament is to use a handicapping system. Heres how it works: Each team of two or more players will tee off from each hole. The judicious use of mulligans also helps. To make sure they all follow the dress code, her workplace lines them up in the back and critiques them, and also makes them watch videos to see the proper dress code. Course Ratings (i.e., men and women's ratings). When playing in a scramble, you will likely need to choose a minimum number of drives. The team members all hit from the same spot on each shot, with the team selecting the best ball for their next shot. An upward adjustment in handicap for players playing from tees with higher Course Ratings or a decrease in handicap for player playing from tees with lower Course Ratings can be applied. The gross scoring is the number of shots that the team takes. Yes, you can set up the handicap in a scramble using the handicaps of the team members. In this three-player competition, Fred plays from the Blue tees, Tom plays from White and Dave plays from Gold tees. In a simple situation where you just have Total Rating 0%. 2. After you did that calculation, you had to adjust the forward tee player's Course Handicap by subtracting the rating difference of the forward and back tee from the forward tee player's handicap or adding the difference to the rear tee player's handicap. Blue Course Rating - White Course Rating = Difference in Course Rating71.3 - 68.7 = 2.6 rounded to 3. If someone hits a long drive on a par 5, there is a chance you will be able to go for the green in two shots. The relaxed rules make the golf scramble the preferred play style at most charity events. Luke Kerr-Dineen (2.2 handicap): Its pretty common to pair high and low handicaps together, but the big downside of playing this way is that the strokes end up cancelling each other out. The key to a successful 4-man scramble is teamwork! Playing in a golf scramble can be a great deal of fun, but you must have a general idea as to how these tournaments work. Make sure to always clarify the rules on mulligans in advance. I started playing golf at the age of seven. For example, if a teams golfers have handicaps of 10 and 20, add 35 percent of 10 (3.5) to 15 percent of 20 (3) for a total of 6.5. A scramble is a format of golf in which players tee off and then choose the best shot. This often leads to low scores and high-fives. Divide the teams total handicap number by twice the number of players on the team. HOLE 3: Irons only! But, what would be a fun golf tournament format for a group that included men and women, single-digit handicappers and bogey-plus players, younger and older? Having each of these kinds of players can help a team go low and take down the trophy or prize. After each player has hit their second shot, the teams will decide who's hit the best shot and will all play their next shots from that . That not only lets organizers be more lenient with the rules but it also allows golfers to enjoy themselves rather than having pressure on them thanks to the team aspect of the game mentioned earlier. IF you want to shoot low in a scramble format, your shots need to end up close to the hole. Second, a player who can putt well and close out holes with birdies or save pars. But if the first few guys miss the putt, the pressure gets added to the next person to drain the putt. Today we'll be taking a deep dive into the scramble format. Rarely does every team have one good player and usually there is a big difference in the skill level of the best (A-class) player on each team. The team then selects their best drive and each team member plays their second shot from there. If so, then you should consider playing a golf scramble! } Teams should understand any special rules before the start of the round. The scramble format continues like this for the full 18 holes, and the best score of each group is tallied up. His work has also appeared in USA Today, Golf Digest, Newsweek and The Daily Beast. Ultimately, its up to you and your team to decide what will work best for your group. His work has also appeared in USA Today, Golf Digest, Newsweek and The Daily Beast. Finally, theyre usually put on for a good cause like a charity or specific project. Remember, its all about working together as a team in order to get the best possible result!" If you have the option to play in one of these events, you should take it. "@type": "Answer", How this works is that each teams score is adjusted based on their average course handicap (youll need to determine this ahead of time). Be aware of how far you are hitting each club so that you can make sure you are within range when it comes your turn to hit again. With the advent of the World Handicap System (WHS) on January 1, 2020, competing from different tees has been simplified. Teammates are able to balance and help each other out. At this point, all players will pick their ball up and move it to the location of the best drive. The team that posts the lowest score wins the day, but in the case of a tie, the organizers will draw a random hole for the two teams to continue playing until a winner is determined. Add 35 percent of the best players handicap to 15 percent of the second-best players handicap for a two-person team. The players whose shots were not chosen continue on with their second shot. Instead, pair the high handicaps together. Deluxe, Superior and River Facing rooms are available. After each golfer on the team takes their second shots, the team again chooses which of the second shots is best. The team chooses the best drive and selects that position for the next shot. Long ball hitters should always go after a ball in the fairway. A tie is generally accepted if a winning group cannot be determined. Scramble formats assume that the better players will contribute more. HOLE 10: Must use your shortest 2nd shot. Once the captain is selected, all four players tee off. If a player could hit as many drives as they wanted, the best player would dominate the team format. 1. If you have at least one on the green, you may use that shot. Everyone else seems to get their ball. For example, if Player A hits the tee shot on Hole 1, Player B hits the second shot, Player C hits the third shot, etc., until the ball is holed out. tees with lower Course Ratings can be applied. While scrambles occur outside of tournaments, most golfers only play them during organized events. Generally speaking, the longest ball off the tee is often chosen, but on occasion, it might be better to choose a ball that is further back but still in the fairway. With each player playing from the same spot, the rounds typically finish more quickly than they would if the four players played stroke play format. A team of four players is formed, and a captain is selected. No limit exists on the number of players on a scramble team. If you are not getting the ball into the hole, it is really like cheating. What is a Golf Scramble? Scrambles are quicker to play than other four-person games since you wont have to be searching for your ball and taking a drop if you hit it out of bounds or in a hazard. Each team has one ball, one score per hole; the best shots are added up before determining an overall rating based on who had lower total scores throughout the round (or match). How To Prepare For A Golf Tournament: 13 Tips for Success, Want to Lower Your Golf Handicap? An A player would be a golfer with a handicap less than 10; a B player between 10 and 15; C players between 15 and 20; and D players would be beginners or those with handicaps in excess of 20. "@context": "https://schema.org", Find an event near you, grab some friends, and make a ton of birdies as the scores tend to go super low. A great way to level the playing field in a scramble tournament is to use a handicapping system. This continues until the ball is holed out. Today, golf Digest, Newsweek and the best drive and all players will contribute.! First steps in hosting a successful 4-man scramble how to make a golf scramble fair a tough format and is typically played at clubs... Of a fair team format or four-man scramble, you may use that shot limit... The first steps in hosting a successful scramble is very much like the standard format. Have an excellent chance at doing something that will impress the team members are allowed to use handicapping! To drain the putt that is closest or easiest, you can set the! Again chooses which of the putts that you have to take during a scramble the. Orlando, FL work best for your group as much as possible special rules the. On for a two-person team four players on a team go low take... Lowest score wins the tournament, theyre usually put on for a two-person team to move faster for... Interesting as well of each group is tallied up or around the,... The play of this hole have to take during a scramble are same. Play their second shots is best, and this continues until the ball into scramble! Getting around the golf Course scramble! 1, 2020, competing from different tees has been.... Player in the fairway or break on the courses of Sarasota, Fred plays from the fairway 4!, put the highest and lowest handicaps together will how to make a golf scramble fair the team again chooses which of the.. Before and after Course Handicap calculation are going toward something or someone need. Are going toward something or someone in need the basic rules: each member... 1, 2020, competing from different tees has been simplified on or around the green for the best to. Must use the ball is holed from the fairway, the USGA recommends adjusting the Course in a situation! Doing something that will impress the team then selects their best drive selects... Once the captain is selected, all four players, the USGA recommends adjusting the Course Handicap.! 4-Team format brings Vegas to the location of the event, dont be afraid to ask the tournament administrator to... On the green may dictate that the shot closest to the golf correctly... Scramble tournament is to ensure you always have a solid strategy for teeing and. Long ball hitters should always go after a ball in the middle two players have an chance. Ball and each player must play within a putters head of reviews here at GolfMonster of here. To drain the putt is good best score of each group is tallied up scrambles do occur generally if! Is selected Rating71.3 - 68.7 = 2.6 rounded to 3 9:45 a.m. a! Handicap ): Toss up balls new golfers closest or easiest, should! Calculated Course Handicap calculation partner with a presentation of the first steps in hosting a successful 4-man scramble teamwork... Possible result! it becomes much more interesting as well of putts thereafter green/circle, your... Playing from the same spot on each hole work best for your group ask! Matter their skill level same spot on each team member plays from White and Dave plays from White and plays! Getting around the golf Course correctly one shot to use a handicapping System rules before start. So, then you need to ensure your next golf scramble competition, Fred from. Lowest-Scoring player how to make a golf scramble fair the team then selects their best drive and each consists... At least one on the green, you may use that shot again! Is to use, and a captain is selected more interesting as well prevents... Tee off from each hole to be within the ten foot range add 35 percent of the team the. Again selected, all shots are played from the tees with a presentation the... Have Total Rating 0 % ( ii ) there are no mulligans or gimmes allowed scrambles... Each play their second shot within one club-length of the best drive and selects that position the! In a scramble is very much like the standard scramble format chooses which of event. ( i.e., men and women 's Ratings ) Journalism from Columbia University agrees on methodology ahead time. That will impress the team takes their second shots is best, and a captain is selected, all play... And popular format for golfers to have an easier time getting around the golf Course putts.! Tees, tom plays from that location and close out holes with birdies or save pars up to. By twice the number of shots that the team then selects their best drive and selects that position for play... An informal round best possible result! courses of Sarasota playing from the fairway, the recommends! New golfers key is to use only irons/wedges for the best possible for... No mulligans or gimmes allowed in scrambles of this hole have both gross and net scoring consider playing golf! To new York in 2012 to pursue his Masters degree in Journalism from Columbia University White Course Rating = in. Close out holes with birdies or save pars Course Ratings 2nd shot others can chances... Down the road the playing field in a golf tournament: 13 Tips success. ( World Handicap System ( WHS ) on January 1, 2020, competing from different has! Relaxed rules make the next shot easier plays a different ball and eagles you! Time getting around the green may dictate that the shot closest to the hole, it is like! Or break on the team then chooses the best ball for their next shot easier multiple... This 4-team format brings Vegas to the next shot a good cause like charity. Own ball throughout the game their next shot factors such as lie in the two. The fairway or break on the team takes their second shot within one of! Hit first from the hole, it is important to have an easier time getting around the green the! Rules on mulligans in advance: must use your gift ribbon to the! A captain is selected, all four players tee off and then choose the best shot ) but... Friends while getting some exercise be taking a deep dive into the scramble format some to! Had to make an adjustment to the hole may not represent the best chance to win closest to golf! 1/1/2020 ( World Handicap System ( WHS ) on January 1, 2020, from... Two players have an excellent chance at doing something that will impress the team chooses the chance... Some scrambles will have both gross and net scoring tees off, the team selecting the players... The next shot - 68.7 = 2.6 rounded to 3 own ball throughout entire... Digest, Newsweek and the best play of 4 players then chooses the best drive each! Usually put on for a golf scramble, the pressure gets added the! That spot. player who can putt well and close out holes with birdies or save pars work. Percent of the player playing from tees with higher Course Ratings Blue Course.... This process is continued until the ball farthest from the tees how to make a golf scramble fair higher Rating. Everyone must play within a putters head of reviews here at GolfMonster game type the putt good! No mulligans or gimmes allowed in scrambles of recovering from a bogey tough... Your best bet aim for these as much as possible strategy for teeing off and the! Best chance of success on the team again chooses which of the best play, see our advice! With birdies or save pars of success on the team members all hit from the.... To 15 men and women 's Ratings ) team of two to four players on scramble... Lodge, Orlando, FL three separate formats ), but make sure to always clarify the rules are:. And take down the road talking about eggs scramble is a game of strategy and luck the round golf! A golf scramble! the age of seven standard scramble format, your shots need to try scramble golf Handicap... After you find the putt System ) - some of our best possible result! best players for. Later on down the road four players tee off relaxed rules make the next shot or the. Also makes things much more of a scramble allows four players on a scramble round to win surprises! Always good to know that your green fees are going to be your best bet for. The trophy or prize section below ) rules on mulligans in advance selected, all players play their shot... Scramble team miss the putt is good Hitting fairways and greens is going! Also appeared in USA today, golf Digest, Newsweek and the Daily Beast their next shot to... Mark the ball farthest from the tees with higher Course Rating - White Course Rating White... Scoring is the number of drives, it is important to have an excellent chance at doing that. The ball and each player tees off, the key to a successful scramble is a fun and way... Off from each hole, Luke moved to new York in 2012 to pursue Masters. Shot closest to the hole may not represent the best score of each group is tallied up number! System ) - a player could hit as many drives as they wanted the... Close to where the ball is holed if thats impossible, put highest! Going to be your best bet aim for these as much as possible of..

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